[Political_Science] Re: re. Super-Campaign for people power / more democracy

Mr Zouk mrzouk8 at yahoo.com
Mon Nov 1 23:02:07 GMT 2010

I'm wondering if someone here can explain to us, the meaning of the word citizen?
citizen  ship
pass port
trans port
sounds very maritime admiralty to me.
Any one know why some U.S.A flags have a gold rim around the edge?
Is it perhaps because this is the maritime admiralty flag?
and the U.S.A. is the former East India Company
The United States Is The East India Company's Endeavor


Anyone know the meaning of words in legalese, or law dictionaries?
Look up the word "person" and you will see that it is defined as a corporation.
How do you think the government gets loans from international banks?
Well, I'm sure they'd want the loans repaid wouldn't they?
what do you think the birth certificate is for? and who owns that name on the birth certificate?
DO you reckon our parents knew what they were doing when they registered a child?
to do so is to:give up owner ship to the queen.
Jordan Maxwell explains - 6 minutes to free your mind - 

do you believe you own your house? or are you simply a glorified tenant?
you better look this information up, and start waking up, before it's too late.
there are plans for us you cannot imagine.

--- On Mon, 11/1/10, IandRgb <mm at iniref.org> wrote:

From: IandRgb <mm at iniref.org>
Subject: [Political_Science] Re: re. Super-Campaign for people power / more democracy
To: "Max Wallis" <WallisMK at cardiff.ac.uk>
Cc: londonsocialforum2003 at yahoogroups.com, redpepperdebate at yahoogroups.com, "UKCPN" <ukcpn at yahoogroups.com>, directactionagainstwar at yahoogroups.com, "diggers" <diggers350 at yahoogroups.com>, Envlist at yahoogroups.com, esfdemocracy_eurodebate at lists.riseup.net, "democracy forum" <democracy-forum at yahoogroups.com>, Political_Science at yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, November 1, 2010, 9:55 PM


We have been in contact with Charter88 and New Politics, now "Unlock Democracy" for years, have met, discussed tactics etc.. Our impression is that the Unlock membership is not (yet?) willing to back a major (and costly) campaign for "citizens' initiative, binding referendum and recall".

A campaign such as INIREF, specialised in democracy ("direct"), is needed or justified for a number of reasons such as:

– Citizen-led democracy should be a fundamental contributor, perhaps better -- driving force -- to the development and introduction of many reforms including the ones currently "up front" at Unlock Democracy. So this should be a priority issue for reform minded people (see further argument 1. below).

– The field of direct democracy has been growing for decades, much experience has accumulated in other countries (not in UK), the constitutional and legal bases need to be studied and explained, a logging and analysis of procedures and cases is needed. This knowledge must be understood, digested and made available to citizens via educational projects and advocacy campaigns like ours.

– In other countries there are very successful campaigns for "more democracy" of the sort which we at www.iniref.org propose. There have been huge successes in obtaining better participative democracy, against opposition of strong political parties. The nature of politics and societies change for the better as a result ...

Michael Macpherson

1. Our reply to the Power Inquiry. Comments on "Power to the People", the Report 2006* of the Rowntree Trusts’ Power Commission. What’s in it for direct democrats? Via http://www.iniref.org/latest.html

Max Wallis wrote: 

unlockdemocracy.org.uk  has a relevant section with a broader perspective.  
Why not combine with that?   / Max 
Bringing Power Closer to the People

Power is far too centralised in the UK. We need a radical shift in the balance of power in favour of local government and the people. We need to find new ways of engaging people at both a local and national level in between elections as well as on election day.
Create a Citizens’ Convention
How reforms are made is just as important as what form they take.  Too often, politicians have too much of a vested interest in the status
quo to adequately decide on reforms. The decision-making must be taken, in large part, out of their hands. The public must have a stake in
any changes made. No single group has a monopoly on wisdom.
A new UK constitution should develop from a wide-scale process of public discussion, debate and participation. One feature should be a citizens’ convention, comprising a hundred randomly chosen individuals.  The convention would consult specialists and the wider public and report its findings back to parliament. Proposals would be subject to a referendum.
Make Direct Democracy a Reality
The UK should make greater use of direct democracy at both a national and local level to complement and, on occasion, challenge representative democracy. Democracy is not simply a matter of majority rule, therefore there needs to be clear rules about where direct democracy can and cannot be used.
As a first step towards introducing more direct democracy, parliament should introduce:

A petitions committee in the House of Commons. 
A ‘people’s bill’ system whereby a specific proposal would be automatically debated and voted on in parliament, and thus
potentially become law, if a million people petitioned for it. 
A veto system triggering a referendum if a million people petition to overturn an act of parliament within six months of it becoming
Radically Increase Devolution and Decentralisation    .......continues at 
-----Envlist at yahoogroups.com wrote: -----

To: londonsocialforum2003 at yahoogroups.com, redpepperdebate at yahoogroups.com, UKCPN <ukcpn at yahoogroups.com>, directactionagainstwar at yahoogroups.com, diggers <diggers350 at yahoogroups.com>, Envlist at yahoogroups.com, esfdemocracy_eurodebate at lists.riseup.net, democracy forum <democracy-forum at yahoogroups.com>, Political_Science at yahoogroups.com
From: IandRgb <mm at iniref.org>
Sent by: Envlist at yahoogroups.com
Date: 31/10/2010 11:18
Subject: [Envlist] Super-Campaign for people power / more democracy


The time seems ripe for a broadly-backed effort to introduce partial direct democracy in the UK and its countries.

Moving our countries, cities, towns and districts towards real "democracy-by-the-people" is not a party-political issue.

The idea that we as citizens should be able to participate in our own public affairs has spread to people from most walks of life. However, when we move on to ask "How?" shall we take part then the answer, despite blustering talk by the "major" political parties about giving power back to the electorate, remains very unsatisfying. The condition of our political power remains much as it was in the oft quoted eighteenth century quip by Jean Jacques Rousseau, "The people of England think they are free. They are gravely mistaken. They are free only during the election of Members of Parliament". We may vote for a politician or party once every few years but in the intervening periods we have no effective ways to influence public policy nor to veto unwanted laws and government actions. Opinion surveys, petitions and mass demonstrations may occasionally have influenced government behaviour but there is no guarantee whatsoever that the will of the electorate
 shall be respected in public policy.

So what are the effective ways to return some "power to the people"? Several well-tried "tools" of democracy are available including:
– the Citizens' Proposal (also known as "initiative" and "proposition").
– the Referendum.

Some illustrations follow:
a) The Citizens' Proposal tends to act as an "accelerator" or stimulus in public affairs. Governments may fail to act on an important matter of policy, or assign low priority to another. By formulating a proposal and collecting an agreed number of endorsements, members of an electorate can put the proposal on the public agenda, obliging parliament to debate and decide on the proposal, and if need be triggering a decision by the whole electorate in a referendum ("ballot").

b) The Veto-Referendum, the "brake", may be used to strike out part of a law, annul a law or block a government law before it comes into effect. For current government law, usually an agreed number of signatures must be collected within a few months, in order to usher in a referendum on the legislation which has been challenged.

c) The Recall is a form of Citizens' Initiative which can lead to the sacking of an MP (or councillor) in the period between normal elections. A proposal to "recall" the elected representative must be endorsed by a large number of members of her or his constituency. A successful "recall" must usually be followed by a by-election.

These procedures of democracy are of course not meant to replace, nor would they weaken, parliament and government. 

It is of interest to note that the Conservative and Liberal Democratic parties have repeatedly promised to devolve power to the "lowest possible" level. After gaining power the Conservative/Libdem coalition put forward some surprisingly advanced proposals for improving democracy in Britain. For instance, the coalition agreement among other related ideas promises:

– We will give residents the power to instigate local referendums on any local issue.
– We will give residents the power to veto excessive council tax increases.
– We will bring forward early legislation to introduce a power of recall ...
Elsewhere David Cameron promised to introduce "The right to initiate local and national referenda" ('Fixing broken politics' speech May 2009).

It is by no means certain that the Con/Libdem coalition is sincere about the above described reforms nor is it clear that their leaders can realistically hope to deliver in the face of anticipated opposition from their own back benches and elsewhere. They need our help and encouragement!

Those many citizens (more than seven in ten adults according to surveys) who yearn for people-powered democracy in all parts of the UK could rise to take these politicians AT THEIR WORD. Moving our countries, cities, towns and districts towards real "democracy-by-the-people" is not a party-political issue. Whatever your political views, so long as you want better democracy then please join in yourself or support others who actively campaign.


Further information:


I&R ~ GB Citizens' Initiative and Referendum
Campaign for direct democracy in Britain

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