08Oct Guardian: Developing Alternative Housing Models

[Tony Gosling]

Live discussion: developing alternative housing models

Join our expert panel from 12pm on Monday 8 
October to discuss how alternative models can help to meet housing need
http://www.guardian.co.uk/housing-network/2012/oct/05/live-discussion-alternative-housing-models 

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    * Liam Kelly
    * 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian-professional-networks/all>Guardian 
Professional, Friday 5 October 2012 12.32 BST
Residents of a co-operative house in London

Alternate housing models, such as co-operatives, 
can help to provide affordable accommodation for 
local residents. But how big can the movement 
get? Photograph: Frantzesco Kangaris. Photograph: Frantzesco Kangaris

In a country blighted by a shortage of 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/housing>housing, 
where the few homes available remain out of the 
reach of many, alternative housing models offer 
an affordable and innovative way to help meet desperate need.

So why does alternative housing remain so 
unpopular? Statistics 
<http://www.ccmh.coop/>released by the Commission 
on Co-operative and Mutual Housing show co-ops 
and mutuals, one of the most common alternatives, 
still only account for just 0.6% of UK homes; the 
European average is around 15%. Surveys assessing 
tenant satisfaction also reveal that co-operative 
housing residents are more satisfied with their 
accommodation than those in other tenures.

There has been significant progress towards 
rolling out new housing options this year. 
Rochdale Boroughwide Housing 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/housing-network/2012/feb/17/rochdale-staff-tenants-mutual-housing>became 
the UK's largest housing mutual after residents 
voted overwhelmingly in favour of transferring 
their homes to the mutual group. Meanwhile, the 
UK's first urban community land trust (CLT) 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/housing-network/2012/jul/16/london-community-land-trust-homes>was 
confirmed in east London (though London mayor 
Boris Johnson's promised network of CLTs 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/housing-network/2012/jun/18/community-land-trusts-red-tape>remains 
some way off).

The coalition government has also set aside land 
and a £30m pot for self-build groups, vowing to 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/housing-network/editors-blog/2012/may/18/nation-self-builders-grant-shapps>double 
the size of the self-build industry with the help 
of television architect Kevin McCloud.

Are we really at the dawn of a new era that will 
challenge the role of traditional housing 
tenures? What can alternative housing models 
offer the UK? How large can they grow – and what 
is preventing their growth today?

Join our expert panel from 12pm on Monday 8 
October to discuss co-operatives, mutual housing, 
self-build and other alternative accommodation, 
and how these new models can tackle the UK's growing housing crisis.

Panel

Catherine Harrington is national co-ordinator of 
the National Community Land Trust (CLT) Network. 
CLTs are not-for-profit, community-based 
organisations run by volunteers that develop 
housing, workspaces or other community assets 
that are owned and controlled by the community 
and made available at permanently affordable levels

Trevor Bell is co-ordinator of the 
<http://www.nftmo.com/>National Federation of 
Tenant Management Organisations (NFTMO). A 
network of 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/housing-network/tenants>tenants' 
organisations who manage their council and 
housing association homes. Trevor has been NFTMO 
co-ordinator for ten years and has always lived 
or worked in community led housing

Steve Hoey is the co-ordinator at 
<http://www.canopyhousingproject.org/about.html>Canopy 
Housing in Leeds. Canopy is a self-help housing 
organisation which enables homeless families to 
create quality, affordable homes for themselves 
by renovating long-term empty properties with the help of local volunteers

Nic Bliss is chair of the 
<http://www.cch.coop/>Confederation of 
Co-operative Housing (CCH) – representing 
co-operative and mutual housing. Working with 
various partners, the CCH is currently working on 
developing a number of small scale community-led housing schemes

Jo Gooding is the national co-ordinator of the 
<http://www.cohousing.org.uk/>UK Cohousing 
Network. The network supports the development of 
cohousing, shaping the policy landscape, 
providing resources, training and technical 
assistance to forming cohousing groups. There are 
12 cohousing 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/communities>communities 
established and 35 in development

Rose Seagrief manages 
<http://www.wiltshirecommunitylandtrust.org.uk/>Wiltshire 
Community Land Trust, an umbrella body that 
supports local communities to use the Community 
Land Trust model to acquire and develop their own 
assets for community benefit, in particular 
housing. Rose sits on the board of the National CLT Network

Ted Stevens chairs the 
<http://www.nasba.org.uk/>National Self Build 
Association (Nasba), a lobbying organisation that 
has been pressing the government it make it 
easier for more people to build their own homes




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    * 5 October 2012 1:05PM Hello. The discussion 
will take place here – in the comments section – 
from 12pm on Monday. However feel free to leave a 
comment or question in advance if you can't make it on Monday.
    Also, if you know somebody who is involved in 
alternative housing models, please forward them 
the link to this page. We'd be really interested in hearing from them.
    *
    []
      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/4448622>janesyoung
    * 5 October 2012 8:15PM How can we persuade 
the Government, which so dislikes regulation, 
that mandatory accessibility standards for new 
housing are essential if disabled people are to 
have a proper choice of housing - rented or 
purchased, private or affordable? Regulation is 
absolutely essential as so many architects and 
developers are ignorant of accessibility issues, 
barely even meeting the requirements of Building 
Regs Part M, never mind Lifetime Homes or wheelchair standards.
    With an aging population, all new homes 
should be built to Lifetime Homes standards as a 
minimum, otherwise the next housing crisis will 
not be a shortage of homes but a dearth of homes 
suitable for those who need to live in them. The 
example of the young lady who can't find adapted 
accommodation for rent in London, in order to 
take up an internship at the Dept of Health, 
should be a wake-up call for us all - especially 
this anti-regulation, anti-disabled people Government!
    (I'm a retired local authority Access Officer)


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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/4752446>truecomrade
    * 6 October 2012 7:53PM there is no 
alternative either we build them or we don,t ...

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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10909211>UKCohousing
    * 7 October 2012 12:00PM
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    Hi, for those that aren't so familiar with 
the term, cohousing communities are planned and 
managed by residents. The private homes are 
similar to conventional homes and are 
supplemented by a shared common house and other 
shared facilities. Cohousing residents have 
seperate finances and have different tenure and 
ownership structures. Some are intergenertional, 
some are communities of interest in for example 
senior communities. They are all different. See 
www.cohousing.org.uk for more details on 
established and forming cohousing communities 
across the uk. What they all share is a strong 
desire for community. Design of the communities, 
easier for new builds than a conversion, is used 
as an important tool for facilitating social 
interaction. Keeping cars to the periphery, and 
putting the common house in the centre. It is not 
necessarily a defining feature of cohousing, but 
through smaller homes, community cooperation and 
structures; cohousing is a sustainable model of 
housing and community. Reducing waste, car 
ownership, shared energy schemes, community food 
growing, community support to care for children 
and elderly. Look out for, Lilac in Leeds and 
Lancaster Cohousing in the groups pages of the 
website for background on England's two newest 
cohousing communities. I will be able to answer 
questions and contribute to the discussion tomorrow....


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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/3321270>paullusk
    * 7 October 2012 10:53PM Our housing market 
is broken. 50 years ago the average houseprice 
was 3x ave income, and there was one home per 3 
head of population. Now the average houseprice is 
over 6x ave income, and there is one home per 2.3 
of population. So our key problem is not a 
housing 'shortage' but a broken and disfunctional 
housing market - a politically manipulated market 
where tax-free capital gains way in excess of the 
price of capital has in effect made housing a 
free good for the owner-occupying middle class, 
and the private sector is not fit for purpose as 
a provider of homes. Our failure to meet the 
needs especially of our young people is a 
scandal. Before WW1, co-operative housing (in the 
shape mainly of the co-partnership movement) was 
seen as the likely driver of what we now call 
social housing, but was marginalised by the rise 
of state housing and owner-occupation. The 
current co-op movement is fragmented and tiny - 
and inhabiting its own esoteric political niche,- 
but it could be the vehicle for 
inter-generational justice - a transfer of privilege across the generations.


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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10919930>Michellewales
    * 8 October 2012 8:46AM Cooperative models of 
housing development perhaps more than any other 
have to grow from the grass roots up, not be 
imposed from the top down if they are to meet the 
various housing needs of different groups of 
people. Most peopel will be unaware of this option.
        * Recommend? (0)


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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10919950>TMoore
    * 8 October 2012 9:15AM If there are 
community land trust experts on the panel, I 
would be interested to know their views on the 
prospects or otherwise for a growth in the number 
of urban CLTs. We have the examples emerging in 
East London and Bristol but it would be 
interesting to hear if there are many other 
notable examples emerging and the scale at which 
they are doing so. Furthermore, what is impeding 
the progress of the nascent group of urban CLTs 
in contrast to the now well-established rural CLT 
sector? Leasehold enfranchisement has regularly 
been mentioned as a barrier as it prevents CLTs 
from employing the affordability mechanisms they 
wish to use, as well as poor access to land in 
urban areas (whereas rural CLTs can use exception sites).
    Related to this, I'd also like to pick up on 
paullusk's point (posted at 7 October at 10.53pm) 
of the cooperative movement being fragmented. 
Could the same be said for the community-led 
housing movement in general (whether they use the 
label of coop or not)? There seems to be many 
different groups - development trusts, community 
land trusts, self-help housing groups, housing 
cooperatives, co-housing communities - that face 
similar barriers and seek to tackle similar 
issues, yet position as/identify with particular 
niche sectors. Could this fragmentation be 
impeding the growth of community-led housing - 
e.g. by creating defintional issues among 
partners, funders, regulators, etc? Is there more 
scope for a greater collective voice for 
community-led housing that identifies the common 
ground between the varied sub-sectors sharing 
principles of resident/community control?
    Look forward to the discussion later on.


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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10909211>UKCohousing
    * 8 October 2012 9:38AM
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    Hi TMoore, representatives from different 
community led housing models have been working 
together under the banner of Mutual Housing 
Group. Really useful forum to extend our 
influence, lobby for resource for the sector and 
to shape the policy landscape. Perhaps as a group we can do more together?
    Im interested to hear what people think about 
our continued obsession to build single family 
housing and if enabling resilient neighbourhoods 
with the infrastructure to share and care for one 
another will help to meet the challenges of peak 
oil ( weekends price hike in US due to shortages) and our ageing population?


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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10920067>AndrewJohnGreen
    * 8 October 2012 9:40AM This is a very 
encouraging and timely discussion. Creative 
housing solutions, including self build, Co-ops 
and community led housing need to be actively 
considered. I have no great expertise to bring to 
the table in this area but will be looking at the discussion with interest.
    Andrew


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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/2537676>honestjohn
    * 8 October 2012 9:47AM Can the experts help 
the lay audience with some facts and figures to 
facilitate an informed debate?? e.g Land Supply- 
who owns most of the land in UK-( how many of 
them have seats in HoL??) and Investment-who are 
the key players in the financing of both the 
private and public construction domains?- and is 
there the potential for other investers to be 
persuaded ( if not obliged) to get on board?
    why have successive governments adopted short 
and medium term strategies rather than long term 
( or maybe thats a rhetorical question?)


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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/4623451>LiamKelly
    * 8 October 2012 10:34AM
    This symbol indicates that that person is The Guardian's staff

    Thanks for your early comments and questions. 
The live discussion begins at 12pm, but here are 
a few articles on alternative housing models that you may find interesting

    <http://www.guardian.co.uk/housing-network/2011/aug/11/mutual-housing-taking-your-share?INTCMP=SRCH>Mutual 
housing: Taking your share

    <http://www.guardian.co.uk/housing-network/2012/jan/13/housing-cooperatives-affordable-alternatives?INTCMP=SRCH>Housing 
co-operatives: are we better together?

    <http://www.guardian.co.uk/housing-network/2012/feb/17/rochdale-staff-tenants-mutual-housing>Rochdale 
joins staff and tenants together as biggest mutual in housing

    <http://www.guardian.co.uk/housing-network/2012/jun/18/community-land-trusts-red-tape>Community 
land trusts held back by complex GLA red tape

    <http://www.guardian.co.uk/housing-network/editors-blog/2012/may/18/nation-self-builders-grant-shapps>Editor's 
blog: is Britain a nation of self-builders?


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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10920312>urbanselfbuild
    * 8 October 2012 10:36AM honestjohn - you 
have hit the nail on the head. Access to land for 
these alternative housing models is key. To do 
this on any significant scale requires either 
open market land value to be paid, or for the 
housing model to fulfill local affordable housing 
criteria. Self build is one way of acheivening 
both, but requires scale through multiple plot/home developments.


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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/4751091>NicBliss
    * 8 October 2012 10:40AM
    This symbol indicates that that person is a contributor
       Guardian pick This comment has been chosen 
by a member of Guardian staff because it's interesting and adds to the debate
    Really useful comments in advance of this 
forthcoming discussion. Just wanted to throw in 
some useful points that might be helpful and 
comment on the above comments. I agree with Paul 
and TMoore that the community-led housing sector 
has been fragmented - but we are gradually 
working on that. Jo is correct that there is a 
Mutual Housing Group that brings together all the 
different community-led housing sectors - and we 
are gradually beginning to coallesce about a 
common approach to providing community-led 
housing options for people and communities.
    A key part of this has been our work to 
develop "warehouse" funding for community-led 
housing - in response to a common problem that it 
is next to impossible for any small scale housing 
scheme to access private investment. Our approach 
has been to batch together the needs of a number 
of schemes to get private investment needs up to 
the levels that investors will look at - and we 
(the Mutual Housing Group) are shortly to tender 
for a financial intermediary to enable us to set 
up the first community-led housing finance 
package to fund an initial tranche of schemes. 
Once set up our hope is that this will enable future schemes to be funded.
    As part of this work, we have been doing a 
lot of work to encourage the development of 
schemes - talking to many local authorities, 
community groups and housing associations about 
developing schemes - and our approach has been 
very definately to start from the principles 
behind community led housing and then work back 
to whatever model is appropriate to meet the 
needs and aspirations of local communities (ie. 
who is to be housed? what is actually possible in the local environment?).

    I'd suggest two issues that have held us back 
- (a) the fragmentary nature of our sector - 
where various different small sectors have sprung 
up to develop community-led housing rather than 
working together and most importantly presenting 
a unified approach to Government, local 
Government and to ordinary communities. I hope 
that we are well on the way to sorting that 
problem now and (b) with various people having 
been promoting community-led housing for many 
years - our thinking had been that one presents a 
vision to Government and then Government makes it 
happen. We have learnt over the last few years 
that this was naive - even if we could get any 
Government to "make it happen" - they would still 
be reliant on the practitioners in the sector to 
really "make it happen" - and more importantly - 
we have learnt that making lenders lend is beyond 
the power of any Government. So - we have learnt 
that - if we want community-led housing to be an 
option for people and communities - we have to 
make this happen ourselves working with local 
communities (with sympathy and support from 
Government - but not led and not directed by 
them). So whilst we have had welcome support from 
HCA and now Big Society Capital - the work we are 
doing now to develop community-led housing is 
coming about through our sector beginning to do a 
lot of work to make it happen.
    Of course - we are still some distance from 
where we would like to be - ie. where any 
community could exercise an option to develop 
community-led housing - and there be the tools 
available for them to do it - but our hope is 
that getting some community-led housing going 
would pave the way for future schemes to develop.
    See you in the discussion.


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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10919950>TMoore
    * 8 October 2012 10:45AM The issue of land 
access is part of the reason I asked my question 
above in relation to urban CLTs. Seems to be that 
they're currently dependent on the public sector 
taking a particularly positive view of community 
development and disposing of it at low cost on 
terms that can benefit communities (e.g. Bristol 
City Council has recently 
<http://www.bristol.gov.uk/press/environment/council-disposal-land-paves-way-new-affordable-housing>sold 
land to a CLT for a pound) but that doesn't 
happen in all areas (or can't due to economic constraints).

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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10920423>richardlo
    * 8 October 2012 11:06AM We have developed an 
urban CLT model designed to provide affordable 
housing not just for low-income households, it 
will also provide home for the homeless and help 
families facing repossession keep their home.
    The name of our model is "Micro Equity Home 
Ownership" where a social investment fund is set 
up to buy existing properties or to build new 
homes according to the need and put them into a 
co-operative portfolio, which is a community land 
trust. Tenants rent their home from the 
co-operative at fair rent. Tenants can also buy 
their home one share at a time - when they can 
afford - therefore eliminate the need for 
mortgages and avoid associated financial stress in the family.
    The social investment fund is implemented by 
incorporating an Industrial and Provident Society 
(IPS) constituted as a "community benefit 
co-operative", which can issue public offering 
co-operative shares where investors receive a 
reasonable financial return, but the main aim is for social return.
    The residents will rent their home from the 
co-operative at a fair rent and can also buy 
co-operative shares - becoming investors as well 
as owning their home through the co-operative. 
The more shares they own, the less rent they need 
to pay, until they own the whole value of their 
home. Friends and family can also buy Gift Shares 
for the residents to help increase ownership - 
this will build community goodwill and strengthen family bonds.

    For a homeless tenant, even a small amount of 
shareholding in his home would provide him with a 
sense of achievement, self-respect and it would 
encourage him to maintain his tenancy and avoid backsliding to previous issues.
    Local community groups, housing charities and 
support agencies will be invited to partner with 
the model to provide befriending, home support 
and debt counselling services to help distressed families recover.
    We have a put together a fund to provide seed 
funding and the model blue print to help local 
groups to start up their own urban CLT, which is 
suitable for either a few or a larger number of homes for their community.
    We welcome enquiries to our model and applications for our fund.


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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10920062>NeilStephens
    * 8 October 2012 11:33AM Response to 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/18721235>richardlo, 
8 October 2012 11:06AM
    Hi Richard, I would be interested in seeing 
how your Micro Equity Home Ownership model 
compares with the LILAC (Low Impact Living 
Affordable Community) Co-housing model Mutual 
Home Ownership Society. How would I obtain further details?

    *
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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10908735>TedStevens
    * 8 October 2012 11:45AM
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    Someone asked for a few stats and figures - 
so hopefully these will provide some food for 
thought on the self build front: The UK currently 
builds about 10% of its homes via 'self build' - 
most other countries build about half their homes 
this way. At present the 15,000 self builders in 
the UK mainly do it on their own; in most other 
countries group self builds/cohousing or similar 
models are very common. What do we need to do to 
make groups self builds mainstream here in the 
UK? Most self builders do it for two reasons - 
they want to make their budgets go further, or to 
get their first foot on the housing ladder; and 
they really want a say in the design/layout of 
their homes. A recent survey by the Building 
Societies Association suggested that 53% of the 
population would like to build a home one day; 
12% would like to do it in the next 12 months 
(that's about 2 million households)...but only 
about 15,000 currently manage it - so there's a 
big mismatch between 'demand' and 'outcomes'. 
Self build is a bit of a misnomer - around 85% of 
people who do a 'self build' don't do much of the 
actual building work - they hire sub contractors 
or builders to do the bulk of the work for them. 
This sustains local jobs and supports local 
economic growth. The average spend on a self 
build is £150-300k (no much less than the Grand 
Design homes you see on the TV). If you want to 
find some really good advice on how to get a self 
build project off the ground take a look at the 
Self Build Portal website. The National Self 
Build Association is really keen to encourage 
more group self build schemes; we already know of 
scores of local authorities that are now looking 
at the idea. If your council isn't looking at 
self build lobby them - by March next year all 
councils in England have to assess the level of 
demand there is to self build in their area and make provision for it.

    *
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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/2537676>honestjohn
    * 8 October 2012 11:51AM Great comments so 
far- may I pose a few more queries to the 
experts: Why have we moved away from state 
housing provision? • How might the current crisis 
in housing affordability be addressed through 
planning policy? •• How will we deliver quality, 
affordable housing in the future? • And what role 
should the evolving planning system play in delivering decent homes?


    *
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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/3321270>paullusk
    * 8 October 2012 11:54AM Interesting Richard. 
What happens on exit ie if someone moves? Would 
they sell their shares on to the incoming 
member/tenant? Would this affect any HB entitlement?
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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/4623451>LiamKelly
    * 8 October 2012 11:56AM
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    Hi all. Thanks for your early comments and 
discussion. The remainder of our panel are 
logging in now and will be with us shortly.
    A couple of notes about this live discussion:
    New comments do not display automatically, so 
it will be necessary to refresh your browser to 
see the latest comments and keep up in the discussion.
    And you can also reply to a specific comment 
by hitting the 'Respond' link to the right of the 
comment you wish to respond to.

    Could our panel begin by briefly introducing 
themselves and providing a brief explanation of 
the model/scheme they are representing today.
    If you have any problems with this live 
discussion today, you can contact me at liam.kelly at guardian.co.uk
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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10920503>NationalCLTNetwork 

    * 8 October 2012 11:57AM
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    Lots of good points here. Looking forwards to the live discussion...
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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10911569>steve_hoey
    * 8 October 2012 12:03PM
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    Hello everyone. My name is Steve Hoey. I am 
the Coordinator at Canopy Housing in Leeds, UK.
    Canopy renovates empty properties with 
volunteers and homeless people, who become our 
tenants after creating good quality affordable homes for themselves.
    We bring derelict property back into use, 
house homeless families, train unemployed people 
in construction skills, create jobs, improve 
community cohesion and contribute to the 
regeneration of disadvantaged neighbourhoods. 
Happy to take questions/explain more...
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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10908701>WiltshireCLT
    * 8 October 2012 12:07PM Hi Rose Seagrie here 
from Wiltshire Community Land Trust.

    Wiltshire CLT is an umbrella body set up to 
promote and support community-led development and 
management of assets for community benefit. 
Wiltshire CLT was set 18 months ago to try to 
replicate the success of other umbrella bodies in 
bringing forward community-led development, 
particularly Cornwall CLT, which is responsible 
for supporting the development of the majority of CLT homes to date.
    Wiltshire CLT provides one-to-one support to 
help community groups. Groups need varying kinds 
and levels of support to build their capacity and 
confidence to take on housing projects. I’ve 
worked for many years taking community-led groups 
through the process of defining and articulating 
their needs, and creating well run, 
fit-for-purpose vehicles, in the form of 
development trusts and community land trusts, 
which are capable of delivering successful, 
sustainable projects in the long term.
    In Wiltshire the most ambitious community is 
in Wilton. Wilton CLT was set up this year and 
aims to bid for Erskine Barracks, the former UK 
Land Forces HQ, in partnership with a developer. 
The community wants the site to be developed as 
an Eco Park, with highly sustainable housing (c 
450 homes, with a significant affordable 
proportion), new employment opportunities. They 
also want to establish a centre for excellence 
for sustainable technologies that will help the 
wider community tackle high levels of fuel 
poverty and sustainability issues, both economic and environmental.
    Other potential schemes are smaller – 4 homes 
in a very small village on local authority-owned 
land within the development boundary, and 10 
homes in another, probably on privately-owned 
land and an exception site. In each case, getting 
hold of the land at a reasonable rate is going to be fundamental to success.
    Any, take heart TMoore - Swindon is beginning 
to take interest in urban CLTs.
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      <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/4751091>NicBliss
    * 8 October 2012 12:07PM
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    Hi there - I'm the Chair of the Confederation 
of Co-operative Housing, the representative body 
for co-operative and mutual housing in England 
and Wales - and the "convenor" of the Mutual 
Housing Group. I've already referred to the main 
area of activity we are doing - with most of the 
other colleagues on this discussion group - to 
develop more community-led housing. Nic
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        * Link to this comment: Even when the 
state was providing more housing - we were 
arguing then that more of that should be 
community-led because the evidence all pointed to 
as good as if not better performance by 
community-led housing organisations compared to 
housing associations and councils.
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          <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10911569>steve_hoey
        * 8 October 2012 12:16PM
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           Response to 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/18696088>truecomrade, 
6 October 2012 7:53PM
        I agree if by 'build' you mean 
create/produce - we need more affordable homes.
        There are alternatives to traditional 
newbuild however, including renovation/retrofit 
of empty properties. Not the whole answer to the 
numbers, but could be significant.
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          <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10920503>NationalCLTNetwork 

        * 8 October 2012 12:17PM
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        Hi everyone, I'm Catherine Harrington 
from the National CLT Network. We support and 
promote Community Land Trusts in England. Good to 
see some familiar faces on here.
        For those that don't know, CLTs are 
really powerful examples of communities taking 
control and transforming their community by 
bringing forward homes or other assets that are 
controlled and owned by the community and made 
available at permanently affordable levels.
        There are over 100 CLTs across the 
country and 280 homes have been built or are currently under construction.
        These numbers may sound like small fry 
when we consider those in housing need, but 
community-led housing is not claiming to be the 
answer to the nation’s housing crisis, but it 
does need to be one of the answers, one of the options for people.
        And there is lots of potential to become 
a real community-led housing movement. Just to 
echo Nic Bliss and Jo Gooding's points earlier, 
key to that has got to be uniting with the other 
community-led housing sectors in areas of mutual 
interest, to become a strong force for the promotion of community-led housing.
        But also getting the ingredients right, 
including access to land at affordable cost, 
access to development finance and bespoke 
technical advice and support for communities, 
like the work that Rose Seagrief does at Wiltshire CLT.

        I'm interested to know what others see as 
being the key to really scaling up the sector and 
becoming a fully-fledged movement, rather than just a niche sector...???
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          <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10908735>TedStevens
        * 8 October 2012 12:18PM
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        In response to HonestJohn who asks about 
what the planning system can do to help deliver 
more affordable homes I'd suggest that our system 
can learn a lot from the planners in places like 
Almere (Netherlands), and most other European countries.
        Here they don't 'micro-manage' the entire 
process - they TRUST people to build the homes 
they want. They give them more freedom over the 
design and layout, and the green features they 
might incorporate. In my view good planners 
enable things to happen; bad planners just put up 
barriers and frustrate development.
        The building control team in Holland 
don't inspect the quality of work because they 
believe that people who are planning to live in a 
home they have built will want to to function 
properly (so they will ensure the WC and 
electrics are 100% as they are going to use it!).
        So my plea to the planning system would 
be to be a bit more relaxed - especially when it 
comes to innovative larger scale self build 
projects...and to trust (a key word this) people. 
I recognise that may be a big leap of 
faith....but most of our most desirable 
settlements in the UK were built in an era before 
the planning system started to impose itself.
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          <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/4751091>NicBliss
        * 8 October 2012 12:21PM
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           Response to 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/18723238>daveinnit, 
8 October 2012 12:14PM
        Absolutely agree with you daveinnit. I 
didn't mean to give the impression that we want 
to create large faceless organisations - quite 
the opposite - having lived in a housing co-op 
for the best part of my life - I agree with you 
that the value of this is the small scale 
community identity that binds us together and 
enables us to have a small scale community 
infrastructure we can rely on. What I was 
referring to is that we are looking to batch 
together the finance needs of a number of small 
scale community led housing organisations because 
we haven't found any other way to raise such 
finance. Working with our partners we have 
defined criteria for what we see being funded 
through this route - and that includes that 
whatever it is genuinely community-led.
        David is correct that pension funds are 
interested in lending to community-led housing. 
We have met with some pension funds - some who 
thought we were from Mars - and others who 
definately did get it. In fact - what they want 
is a solid and stable return on their investments 
with a regular yield of between 5&7% - which fits 
the bill of what we want to provide exactly. The 
challenge for us is to be able to get enough 
schemes developing at the same time in viable and 
sustainable ways that enables us to be able to 
lend in ways that they are able to lend. And that's what we are working on.
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          <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10911569>steve_hoey
        * 8 October 2012 12:22PM
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           Response to 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/18723238>daveinnit, 
8 October 2012 12:14PM
        I agree that community led housing and 
co-ops/membership organisations have a lot to 
offer and see positive results in terms of 
involvement, participation, fulfillment etc.
        The pension fund idea is an interesting 
one that I had wondered about before. Maybe they 
could underwrite some social impact bonds around housing?
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          <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10920731>TrevorBellNFTMO 

        * 8 October 2012 12:26PM
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        Hi everybody,
        Our Federation's member organisations are 
tenant-run and manage the council or housing 
association homes they live in. Most are estates 
located in disadvantaged neighbourhoods. Although 
Tenant Management Organisations (TMOs) have a 
record of sucess over decades they still manage 
less than 2% of social rented housing. Ours is an 
alternative housing model that can be applied to 
existing tenanted housing as well as new. Council 
tenants have a statutory right to set up a TMO 
but housing association tenants do not. Most TMOs 
manage between 100 and 500 homes.
        A big issue for our members is the stigma 
that has been attached to renting a council / 
housing association home, as owner-occupation has 
been promoted by successive governments. We are 
interested in solutions that will reverse this 
process so that the sector is not regarded as housing of last resort..
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          <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10920665>Wilfried 
Rimensberger
        * 8 October 2012 12:27PM I'm the chairman 
of Millbank Estate, a TMO in central London. Land 
is at a premium and the plots available are 
either to small or commercial enterprises make 
such good offers that cash strapped Westminster 
City Council will go for the highest bidder. CWH, 
the Council's ALMO, has already screened any 
possibility and is desperate to squeeze out flats 
from remaining opportunities if any.
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          <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10920423>richardlo
        * 8 October 2012 12:27PM Response to 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/18722576>paullusk, 
8 October 2012 11:54AM
        When someone moves, they would sell their 
shares back to the co-operative and the incoming 
tenant could buy the shares at the rate they can 
afford. Their shareholding would be treated 
similar to any other savings or shares that they would have.
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          <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/4751091>NicBliss
        * 8 October 2012 12:28PM
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           Response to 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/18723309>NationalCLTNetwork, 
8 October 2012 12:17PM
        Catherine as ever making some really 
important points here (a) we need to be talking 
about becoming an option for people rather than 
taking over the world - there are other things 
going on that are good as well (b) we must make 
sure that whatever we are doing that it is 
genuinely community-led - and not led by 
consultants, other housing organisations or 
whoever - and this is not necessarily easy (c) 
and the challenge for us has always been - how do 
we make this part of the mainstream - so that 
anyone is in a position to consider community-led 
housing as an option. To a certain extent the way 
to do this is by doing it - ie. the more schemes 
we can develop - the more it can become part of 
the public consciousness. But until we can get to 
that level, it means that community-led housing 
schemes exist in an environment that is alien to 
them - which makes it just that little bit harder ...
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          <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/4738163>daveinnit
        * 8 October 2012 12:29PM Nic- thankyou! 
To clarify, I wasn't saying that you were 
suggesting a faceless large organisation, rather 
I was saying a large scale organisation based on 
a solid test case model, possibly attached to a 
positive TV program such as The Great British 
Property scandal is exactly what we need!
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          <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10920503>NationalCLTNetwork 

        * 8 October 2012 12:31PM
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           Response to 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/18721235>richardlo, 
8 October 2012 11:06AM
        Hi Richard,
        Like the others, I'm interested in your 
model and wonder if you've got any pilot schemes 
or is this model still in development? How did 
you/will you access funding to purchase the properties in the first place?
        Definitely like to know more as we're 
putting a big focus on helping the urban CLT 
movement pick up where the rural CLT movement has led....
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          <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10909211>UKCohousing
        * 8 October 2012 12:32PM
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           Response to 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/18722493>honestjohn, 
8 October 2012 11:51AM
        Many questions, the planning framework 
can best enable where there is strategic 
recognition of the value and contribution of 
different models of building homes and community. 
Where local authority regeneration and housing 
enablers have knowledge and experience of 
facilitating delivery and investing in the 
delivery partners of the future. Put simply, an 
open mind and political support. There are 
sufficient examples of community led housing for 
enablers to be able to qualify risk and to study 
the clear advantages. Community led housing is 
grounded on a broader sustainable approach to 
building neighbourhoods, not short term gain. 
It's not all about money and top down support 
either, future residents and local communities 
take ownership of delivering solutions. This can 
be hard work. So what are the critical factors 
for community housing to succeed? I would argue, 
enabling local strategic support, enablers with 
experience and knowledge of delivering community 
led housing (preferably from peers that have 
achieved this), where affordable housing is part 
of the scheme some degree of subsidy be that land 
or affordable housing grant. Passionate, resliant 
and determined people! Effective partnerships 
that recognise the community housing organisation 
as an equal partner? Good organisational 
development and group process? What do you think?
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          <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/4250290>Andycrht
        * 8 October 2012 12:34PM
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        In Cumbria we have 76 units of CLT 
housing coming through, the first 10 of which are 
now built and occupied. Schemes range from 7 
units to 38 units and include extra care housing, 
rented and shared ownership, plus other things 
like pub recuses - all down to the combination of 
community determination plus local enabling.
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          <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/4751091>NicBliss
        * 8 October 2012 12:35PM
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           Response to 
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/18723627>Wilfried 
Rimensberger, 8 October 2012 12:27PM
        The availability of land is clearly an 
important issue. We have been having some success 
(and I think Ted the same in relation to 
self-build) in terms of discussions with local 
authorities about developing community-led 
housing strategies - which in some cases has 
included looking at them providing sub-market 
value land to enable community-led housing 
developments. As yet - such discussions have been 
limited with London councils - but we (ie. the 
Mutual Housing Group) did have a useful meeting 
with GLA Deputy Mayor Blakeway last week to 
explore the possibilities in London - which we 
hope will lead to London event targetted specifically at London Councils.
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          <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10911569>steve_hoey
        * 8 October 2012 12:36PM
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        Just a thought to throw in - it is hard 
to make truly affordable housing happen without 
some grant input. Which is maybe why HAs aren't building much at the moment...
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          <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/10911569>steve_hoey
        * 8 October 2012 12:37PM
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        Also, in terms of empty homes, we are 
finding it hard to get private owners to work 
with us on less than market rental returns
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          <http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/4751120>CarlTaylor
        * 8 October 2012 12:37PM
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        Hi Richard,
        Your model sounds very similar to ours. 
We have handled the repairs issued raised by not 
discounting the rent as a percentage of 
ownership. Thus by seperating rent and equity the 
model is simplier to administer and to explain to prospective members.


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--
+44 (0)7786 952037
http://groups.google.com/group/uk-911-truth
http://www.youtube.com/user/PublicEnquiry
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http://www.reinvestigate911.org/
http://www.thisweek.org.uk/
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http://groups.google.com/group/uk-911-truth
uk-911-truth+subscribe at googlegroups.com
"Capitalism is institutionalised bribery."
_________________
www.abolishwar.org.uk
www.globalresearch.ca
www.public-interest.co.uk
www.radio4all.net/index.php/series/Bristol+Broadband+Co-operative
www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1407615751783.2051663.1274106225&l=90330c0ba5&type=1
<http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf>http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf 

"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which 
alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
<https://217.72.179.7/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/>https://217.72.179.7/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/

Fear not therefore: for there is nothing covered that shall not be 
revealed; and nothing hid that shall not be made known. What I tell 
you in darkness, that speak ye in the light and what ye hear in the 
ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. Matthew 10:26-27

Die Pride and Envie; Flesh, take the poor's advice.
Covetousnesse be gon: Come, Truth and Love arise.
Patience take the Crown; throw Anger out of dores:
Cast out Hypocrisie and Lust, which follows whores:
Then England sit in rest; Thy sorrows will have end;
Thy Sons will live in peace, and each will be a friend.
http://tinyurl.com/6ct7zh6  
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