Re: [Diggers350] Prince Charles’s 10 questionable principles

Zardoz Greek zardos777 at
Sun Dec 28 13:09:48 GMT 2014

Hi Simon

I realise you may have had a few jars when you wrote this.
And it may be to provoke discussion a bit but....

Am I the only one wondering why criticism of the Guardian has morphed into criticism of me?
The only one to wonder why our legitimate criticism of the Duke of Westminster's pal & man to inherit more land than anyone on earth has become "hatred"?

And whether your private audience with Prince Charles, or any similar 'off the record' 'Chatham House rules' relations since 2000 or so that I'm not aware of, has somewhat clouded your better judgement... when it comes to being a voice to genuinely restore peoples' land rights FOR EVERYONE in feudal Britain where the poor are now being ground into the dirt by his Tory chums?

Don't forget the monarchy spends millions on PR & influential charities, foundations etc to influence opinion formers like us. Then still asks for more millions to do up palaces


UK Welfare Reform Deaths near 100 ~ Updated List ~ October 21st 2014
Posted on October 21, 2014 by John McArdle

and this is raging in case you hadn't noticed
The 'black spider' memos: Government’s last-ditch bid to keep Prince Charles’ letters secret

Come on - open your eyes and get on the right side of history 'cos I don't see ANY of our vision AT ALL anywhere on even one of Charles' vast estates - if you don't think that's the point you may as well bury your head in 'Harmony'. 


On Sun, 28/12/14, Simon Fairlie chapter7 at [Diggers350] <Diggers350-noreply at> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Diggers350] Prince Charles’s 10 principles for architecture – and 10 much better ones
 To: diggers350 at
 Date: Sunday, 28 December, 2014, 4:37
 Thjs article and its posting on diggers by the moderator of
 the site is a manifestation of an obsessive dislike of
 Prince Charles rather than any reasoned assessment of what
 is happening to our metropolitan architecture.
 The Guardian has it in for Prince Charles
 because it has persisted in employing trendy, sports car
 driving, architecture correspondents who spend all their
 column inches puffing up the phallocratic erections of
  their neo-brutalist heros.
 esteemed moderator of this site  has always manifested a
 perversely over-exaggerated hatred of Prince Charles, whom
 some of us have a little bit of respect for because he is
 the only hippie head of state we, or anyone else,  is ever
 likely to get.
 blame Prince Charles for No 1 Poultry is perverse. Charles
 opposed the criminal demolition of the magnificent Mappin
 and Webb flat iron building on the site, by Palumbo, and
 anything erected on this site in replacement was bound to be
 inferior. See a pic of the Mappin and Webb building on
 The climax of the Guardian's
 anti Charles campaign came  when they accused the Prince of
 meddling in the banal redevelopment of Chelsea barracks by
 the Qatari royal family. According to the Guardian it was OK
 for Qatari royals to dictate what happens to the London
 skyline, but not for UK royals to object.
 FairlieMonkton Wyld
 6DQ01297 561359chapter7 at
 On 28 Dec 2014, at 02:04,
 Zardoz Greek zardos777 at
 [Diggers350] wrote:
 Charles’s 10 principles for architecture – and
 10 much better ones
 infuriated architects for more than 30 years – but
 Prince Charles’s new set of rules for architectural
 practice might be his silliest intervention yetPrince
 Charles visit to Poundbury, Dorset, Britain A
 spurious notion of What People Really Want …Prince
 Charles in Poundbury, the housing development he created in
 Dorset. Photograph: Paul Grover/REXDouglas
 27 December 2014 08.30 GMT
 on Facebook Share on Twitter Share via Email Share on
 LinkedIn Share on Google+ Share on WhatsAppShares314Comments85An
 unpleasant sense of deja vu occurs every time HRH The Prince
 of Wales comes down from Balmoral to pipe up about
 contemporary architecture. For more than 30 years now,
 he’s been the bane of the architectural profession,
 wielding his accidental power to influence the design not
 only of individual buildings and projects, but the entire
 debate about what architecture is, who it is for and what it
 should look like. So when the Architectural Review recently
 published his series of 10 principles for architecture, it
 was hard to know whether to go apoplectic or simply roll
 one’s eyes: “It’s that man again …
 all began with what should have been an innocuous
 after-dinner speech, when Charles was invited to address the
 Royal Institute for British Architects’ 150th
 anniversary dinner on 30 May 1984. But instead of
 congratulating them all for doing such a jolly good job, he
 took the opportunity to excoriate the profession and their
 modern designs, with his immortal description of the
 proposed extension to the National Gallery in London as a
 “monstrous carbuncle on the face of a much-loved and
 elegant friendâ€. What was remarkable was not so much the
 ferocity of the Prince’s attack, but its success: the
 design for the extension was dumped, and the career of its
 architects, ABK, nosedived. In its place, a jokey and quite
 flimsy fake-classical design by Venturi Scott-Brown stands
 there today.
 the same speech, the prince managed to kill off an office
 block by the legendary German architect Mies van der Rohe,
 which was to be situated near the Bank of England; instead
 we got the garishly postmodern No 1 Poultry building by
 Stirling/Wilford. Later, in 1987, Charles criticised a
 scheme for Paternoster Square next to St Paul’s
 Cathedral by his bete noir Richard Rogers, saying “you
 have to give this much to the Luftwaffe, when it knocked
 down our buildings, it didn’t replace them with
 anything more offensive than rubbleâ€. Rogers’
 scheme was quickly dropped.
 1 Poultry city of london Prince
 Charles’s interference led to the cancellation of a
 new Mies Van Der Rohe building in the City of London;
 instead, we got the garishly postmodern No 1 Poultry.
 Photograph: AlamyOver
 subsequent years, in publications such as his Vision for
 Britain, Charles gave us his eccentrically hyperbolic
 opinions on other modern designs: John Madin’s
 Birmingham Central Library of 1974 (now sadly being
 demolished) looked like “a place where books are
 incinerated, not keptâ€, while the British Library by
 Colin St John Wilson was “more like the assembly hall
 of an academy for secret policeâ€. This would all be
 rather entertaining if it weren’t for the fact that,
 over the years, Charles has thrown his royal privilege
 around with total abandon, most recently getting directly in
 touch with the Qatari royal family to get Richard Rogers
 – who by this point had been m ade Baron Rogers of
 Riverside – thrown off the project to redevelop the
 Chelsea Barracks.
 it wasn’t just his power that made Charles’
 polemics hit home: they coincided with Britain’s
 great lurch to the right. By the time Charles was making his
 pleas for traditional design based upon “timelessâ€
 principles, the dismantling of the welfare consensus of the
 postwar world was in full swing. Rejecting modern
 architecture went hand-in-hand with fighting the unions,
 deregulating the planned economy, smashing industry and
 rejecting the spectre of socialism that had almost ruined
 Britain. During this time Charles surrounded himself with a
 posse of traditionalist oddballs such as Quinlan Terry, who
 believes classical architecture is an expression of
 “divine orderâ€, and Leon Krier, much of whose
 career has been spent trying to redeem the decidedly
 mediocre neo-classical architecture of Albert Speer, the
 Nazi minister for armaments during the second world
 and his friends like to portray themselves as the underdogs,
 as victims of a leftie conspiracy of inhumane modernism, but
 they couldn’t be more well connected, and their
 polemics in favour of twee cottage architecture resonate
 strongly with a public taste for the picturesque and
 sentimental, and the spurious notion of What People Really
 Want. Indeed, despite protestations to its radicalism, the
 Prince’s own housing development of Poundbury in
 Dorset is itself more or less indistinguishable from any
 number of Noddy-house developments up and down the
 now-condemned Birmingham Central Library The
 now-condemned Birmingham Central Library is just the kind of
 modernist building Prince Charles set himself against in the
 late 1980s. Photograph: AlamySo
 what is he saying now, in his 10 points for
 “sustainable†urban growth? Well, it’s
 essentially a mix of the sensible, the tautological and the
 downright sinister. The opening gambit is strong: not only
 is the Prince not interested in “turning the clock
 back to some Golden Ageâ€, but his thoughts and ideas
 about architecture are all about the challenges of the
 future, of housing the 3 billion extra people projected to
 be on the planet by 2050, and housing them in a sustainable,
 resilient manner. If we are to achieve this, he believes, we
 are going to have to rediscover traditional approaches to
 architecture, which developed over millennia, and were
 abandoned in a so-called “progressive†modern
 prince believes in certain things that have become truisms
 in architecture and planning, things even Richard Rogers
 would agree with: that the dominance of the car in the
 late-20th century was a terrible development, and that in
 fact the pedestrian street is the most important artery
 connecting the different mixes of uses and functions within
 a community. As a result, urban density – once
 considered one of the primary sources of slum misery
 – is definitely in. Charles himself offers Kensington
 and Chelsea as an example of high-quality, high-density
 urbanism, but then, he would say that, wouldn’t
 is on shakier ground when he emphasises that buildings must
 “relate to human proportionsâ€, a statement so
 obvious it is essentially meaningless – even the
 tallest skyscraper has human-sized WC cubicles, after all.
 What he means is that architecture should return to the
 harmonic principles of the classical orders of ancient
 architecture, themselves inspired by the sacred geometry of
 what Charles insists on calling “natureâ€. Here
 we’re in more sinister territory. According to
 Charles, nature’s order is “innately
 beautifulâ€, the harmonic and geometrical division of
 circles “displays the order which is sacred to all
 thingsâ€, and this language, this geometric grammar,
 “communicates directly to people by resonating with
 their true beingâ€. In this scheme, the geometric rose
 windows of a medieval cathedral, as “physical
 manifestations of the Divine order of the universeâ€, are
 inherently beautiful – but are we also to
 understand that the
 concrete windows of Le Corbusier’s brutalist La
 Tourette monastery, themselves designed in accordance with a
 mathematical harmonic system, are also beautiful? I
 wouldn’t bet on it.
 Monastery of la Tourette Corbusier’s
 La Tourette Monastery was designed in accordance with a
 mathematical harmonic system, which is just the kind of
 thing Prince Charles espouses – but would he approve
 of this example? Photograph: Philippe Merle/AFPIn
 the end, what it boils down to for HRH the Prince of Wales
 is that designing according to nature’s order fulfils
 humanity on the “physical, communal, cultural and
 spiritual levelsâ€. But he is disingenuously silent about
 why “traditional†architecture was superseded in
 the first place. What he wishes to ignore is that, since the
 industrial revolution, the human environment has changed,
 for ever. New building technologies such as steel and glass
 superseded stone and timber construction, allowing for new
 kinds of building for which there was literally no
 precedent. New modes of transit such as the railway changed
 the way humans experienced space and time, while the
 circulatory potential of the industrialised world allowed
 for global capitalism to develop. The modern architecture
 that the Prince hates so much became dominant after the war
 not only because it was cheaper and more efficient than
 traditional methods, but also because it embodied
 a modern
 world that actively wanted to cast off the traditional past
 – a past that had culminated in the carnage of the
 world wars.
 the end of the day, architecture doesn’t change the
 world, but it offers us a picture of how people see
 themselves in it. In the 20th century, it was considered
 preposterous to build traditionally in an industrialised
 world that was exploring space, developing computers, and
 feeding and educating its people like never before; indeed,
 it’s telling that modern architecture only became
 discredited when the crises of the 1970s kicked in and
 progress itself was put in doubt. When Charles blasts modern
 architecture, he is essentially blasting the historical
 processes set in motion by the industrial revolution, and
 lamenting the diminution of his royal power in the world
 that it brought about. His dreams of traditionally designed
 cities are dreams of a world where people forever know their
 10 key principles …•
 Developments must respect the land
 Architecture is a language
 Scale is also key
 Harmony: neighbouring buildings ‘in tune’ but
 not uniform
 The creation of well-designed enclosures
 Materials also matter: local wood beats imported
 Limit signage
 Put the pedestrian at the centre of the design
 Space is at a premium – but no high-rises
 Build flexibility in
 and Douglas Murphy’s•
 The city belongs to everyone
 space gets ever more murkily private; we need to redress the
 balance of who owns what. It’s people like the Prince
 that stand to lose out.
 Your home is not a castle
 be a far more equal and civilised island if the desire for
 home ownership wasn’t pandered to at every
 Architecture is not a language
 idea of an underlying grammar to architecture implies urban
 life peaked in the piazzas of Renaissance Florence –
 a period of pestilence, gangster princes and public
 But architecture can still be read
 have no language. But the mightiest palace and the tiniest
 shed can tell us how those who build see the world and their
 place in it.
 Mimesis is not mimicry
 architects can work with classical traditions in
 contemporary architecture. It’s unlikely Charles
 would recognise this if he saw it.
 Honesty is still a virtue
 architectural era Charles helped usher in was filled with
 inane jokes and frivolous nonsense. Architecture
 doesn’t need to be fun.
 The street isn’t everything
 right that the importance of the street is recognised, but
 we must avoid turning city centres into identical forests of
 privatised space.
 Nature is not our friend
 respecting nature, let us quote Werner Herzog: “There
 is a harmony [to nature] – it is the harmony of
 overwhelming and collective murderâ€.
 Harmony involves dissonance
 must improve their interactions with the natural world. This
 does not mean architecture must copy natural forms; rather
 it must reconcile itself with cycles of energy and
 is coming
 next century will be pivotal for humanity, and architecture
 will play a huge role. Cute cottages with nice local
 stonework won’t help.
 Douglas Murphy is the author of The Architecture of
 Architecture  Prince
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 2 3 4 5
 at the picture above it doesn't appear to have one
 resident under the age of 60 or who isn't achingly
 middle class. Its a Ghetto for the Daily Mail reading,
 strictly consuming and tory voting barbarians who wish to
 strangle civilisation with bunting and drown it in
 wonders if we should in fact look to the past for our urban
 design and construct walls around our cities to keep these
 kind of people beyond the pale where they belong.
 delighted Charles continues to pour his ignorance and
 meddling almost exclusively into architecture. The more time
 he spends pissing in your tent the less he can spend pissing
 in everyone elses.
 the bright side for all of us he'll be gone some time in
 the next 20 years.
 Report Close report comment form Reason
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 by: Zardoz Greek <zardos777 at>------------------------------------
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