Nationalism can be okay in the face of the European Superstate

Tue Apr 9 17:35:20 BST 2002

What is Nationalism?

1  A jingoistic line that sees all foreigners as dangerous idiots. (or) 
2. A refusal to allow decision making to be centralised in Brussels. In a
European Superstate run by the corporations.

Both of the above???  The view of most working class people in Britain is
that we should never surrender our national sovreignty to Europe. More
power to their elbow I say! Yes, Palestinian Nationalism is perfectly
reasonable - they're fighting for their culture as well as land.  Anyone
who denies peoples' rights to their national cultural identity is a bully,
and probably a fascist. 

Nationalism can mean many things to many people - some of whom use
anonymous email addresses to hide their interests - not all Nationalism is
bad when the European superstate, European currency etc. is trying to suck
us under.

Tony

At 13:30 31/03/02 +0100, you wrote:
>
>Across the world nationalism has been rearing its ugly head again, most
>notably in the cockpit of violence that is the Middle East. As we write
>Palestinian and Israeli workers continue to butcher one another in a
>senseless round of tit-for-tat atrocities. 
>
>As the shooting of Palestinian children and the suicide bombings aimed
>at Israeli workers in Jerusalem continue, socialists have no hesitation
>in stating that this violence is in no way, shape or form in the
>interest of the working class of wage and salary earners. 
>
>Many on the political left will argue that Palestinian nationalism is
>somehow progressive and different to Israeli nationalism and should
>therefore be supported (in a similar way to why they often think Welsh
>and Scottish nationalism should be encouraged in Britain and Irish
>Nationalism in Ulster). 
>
>As socialists, we say that this is a dangerous poison that is being
>spread by the left and that no side engaged in such conflict can either
>speak for the working class as a whole or be an example to it. 
>
>History is replete with minorities in existing states using terrorist
>methods so that a new state may be formed or territory transferred from
>the ownership of one state to another. The working class of wage and
>salary earners is never in a position to benefit from this process, it
>is only in a position to suffer. 
>
>The working class  by definition the class that does not possess any
>significant titles to land or private property, including capital  has
>quite literally nothing to gain from a situation where one group of
>rulers and owners is replaced by another group.
>
>In the nineteenth century when the modern capitalist system was
>expanding across the globe national liberation struggles, typically
>led by a local growing capitalist class against the old autocratic
>empires, were part of the process which swept away the old political
>arrangements and opened the way forward for liberal democracy and the
>development of capitalist methods of production. 
>
>It was often argued that it was in the interests of the working class
>during this time to take the side of the capitalists against the old
>autocracies like the Ottoman Empire and the Russian Empire, etc. It was
>said that this process would open the way up for working class
>organisation and for the development of an advanced industrial system
>which is a prerequisite for a socialist society of abundance and free
>access to available wealth.
>
>Since then, the capitalist system has become a world system. The
>alleged justification for the working class taking sides in 'national
>liberation' struggles has now gone if ever it existed and today all
>such struggles are just deadly battles between sections of the
>capitalist class, even though it is the workers  imbued with
>nationalist poison  that naturally enough end up doing the fighting
>and dying.
>
>We argue that every nation state is by its very nature anti-working
>class. The nation is a myth as there can be no community of interests
>between two classes in antagonism with one another, the non-owners in
>society and the owners (the workers and the capitalists). 
>
>And the state ultimately exists only to defend the property interests
>of the owning class at any given point in history  which is why modern
>states across the world send the police and army in to break strikes
>and otherwise seek to protect the interests of the capitalists and
>business at every turn.
>
>The goal of the socialist movement is not to assist in the creation of
>even more states but to establish a real world community without
>frontiers where all states as they currently exist will be destroyed. 
>
>In a socialist society communities, towns and cities will have the
>opportunity to thrive  and people will no doubt feel an attachment to
>places that are real and tangible  but the 'imagined communities' that
>are nation states will be consigned to the history books where they
>belong.
>
>Our message to the workers who call themselves Israeli and the workers
>who call themselves Palestinian is to cease the slaughter. As workers
>you have no real community of interests to gain from your present
>struggle. You do, however, have an imagined community you should lose
>and an entire world to win instead.
>
>Jan Pole
>
>www.worldsocialism.org
>
>
>__________________________________________________
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>
>
>Diggers350 - an e-mail discussion/information-share list for campaigners
involved with THE LAND IS OURS landrights network (based in the UK ..web
ref. www.thelandisours.org). The list was originally concerned with the
350th anniversary of The Diggers (& still is concerned with their history).
The Diggers appeared at the end of the English Civil war with a mission to
make the earth 'a common treasury for all'. In the spring of 1999 there
were celebrations to remember the Diggers vision and their contribution.
Find out more about the Diggers and see illustrations at:
http://www.tlio.demon.co.uk/diggers.htm  
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>
>
>
>
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--
Tony Gosling
10-12 Picton Street
Bristol
BS6 5QA
England
+44 (0)117 944 6219

tony at gaia.org
http://www.bilderberg.org
http://www.public-interest.co.uk

"US foreign policy can be defined as follows: 'Kiss my arse or I'll kick
your head in.'"  Harold Pinter --- see
http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,3604,309521,00.html

US foreign policy is run by a private business club: The Council on Foreign
Relations --- http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2807

ps. If you get the "S" and the "11" and superimpose them you get a dollar
sign. Coincidence of course!

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