[diggers350] Land rights or climate camp?

Tony Gosling tony at tlio.org.uk
Tue Aug 28 11:20:20 BST 2007 

"Tony is entitled to be a climate sceptic and hence to think that
the atmosphere, to all human intents and purposes, is limitless. "

I never said any such thing - you're misrepresenting my warning about the
two campaigns not being one to fit your own agenda. Neither was I stabbing
the climate camp in the back as Ian said. Pointing out, clearly, that the
two are not one.

We're not the Air is Ours or the Ozone is Ours. Simon, you are implying
that the campaigns are not simply linked which I agree they are, but the
same thing which is a view which will open devilish divisions and be
another excuse for inaction on the land occupations for access to land for
homes, lives and livelihood front. Mark promised he'd organise a meeting
at the bubble at the BGG which hasn't happened. The message is clear.

As far as I'm concerned we must never change the TLIO mission statement to
encorporate climate change as it dilutes our mission to put land ownership
and redistribution of land at the centre of what we do as our predecessors
did.

Robert Kett, Winstanley and the rest would turn in their grave if he
thought TLIO was turning into an anti-air-travel campaign.

I hope we can leave it at that and if anyone else wants to discuss this
please do so on the internal tliocoregroup list




> Its about time I replied to the message below from Tony, specifically
> the statement that Climate Change is a long haul flight away
> from Land Ownership and distribution.
>
> The mission statement of TLIO is to "campaign peacefully for access
> to the land, its resources, and the decision-making processes
> affecting them, for everyone, irrespective of race, gender or age. ."
>
> I have always understood that "the land and its resources" includes
> the global commons (ie the sea, the atmosphere and the heavens). If
> it doesn't. then they should be expressly included in the mission
> statement, because the same issues of equitable access and enclosure
> apply to the liquid and gaseous parts of our planet as apply to the
> solid parts.
>
>   In any case, land = biomass = renewable energy = carbon-neutral
> atmosphere, so access to land means access to atmosphere.
>
> The climate debate (and hence the camp) is directly relevant to TLIO
> since it is about how limited resources are shared between people.
> The aviation industry is particularly relevant since it involves one
> small section of humanity collaring resources that currently, and
> perhaps indefinitely, can't be made accessible to everybody.
>
>   Tony is entitled to be a climate sceptic and hence to think that
> the atmosphere, to all human intents and purposes, is limitless. It
> is possible, though perhaps less than likely,  that 95 per cent of
> the world's scientists have got it wrong. But even if you think that
> global warming is a false alarm, that doesn't stop the climate debate
> being a matter of equitable access to resources, since both the body
> of opinion and the precautionary principle dictate that we should be
> finding a way of sharing out access to atmosphere amongst everyone,
> irrespective of race, gender or age.
>
> Simon
>
>
>
>
>
> On 21 Aug 2007, at 17:04, Gerrard Winstanley wrote:
>
>> Simon,
>>
>> The an umbilical link between building runways and marauding
>> housebuilding companies truly is stretching a point. No it's a
>> different constituncy and I'll wager you won't find much support for
>> the Heathrow protest in Tewkesbury.
>>
>> Most of the people who care about corporte housebuilding excesses
>> don't buy into the whole extended climate change agenda which IMHO is
>> diverting activists from civil rights into pseudo-science. The fact
>> that the ecnonomy is about to collapse, Britain has introduced
>> internment, Brian Haw is under seige, the Russians are pulling out of
>> the European Peace Treaty signed after world war two and the Israelis
>> and Yanks are could be about to nuke Iran.
>>
>> Anyway - I'm sure you don't agree with some of that but its more
>> reason why this list should stick firmly to TLIO's original aims and
>> not get sidelined by Climate Change which is a long haul flight away
>> from Land Ownership and distribution which is at the root of so much
>> of the nation's problems.
>>
>> When Britain started getting colder it wasn't any more to do with
>> 'global warming' became 'climate change'. I don't know enough about
>> the science to get excited about it - but there is no science or
>> pseudo-science necessary to fight for land rights.
>>
>> I used to work in Aviation and hate to see the excesses the
>> privatisation of BAA has led to. Most of the expansion has been quite
>> literaly fuelled by the oil companies, as well as wealth being
>> chanelled into business rather than private hands with business
>> expense accounts accounting for over 80% of bums on plane seats now.
>>
>> Anyway I hope we can agree to differ.... Can we concentrate on our
>> snappy little house prices campaign and make something of it. Mark
>> promised to organise a meeting in Somerset which hasn't materialised.
>>
>> Tony
>>
>> --- In diggers350 at yahoogroups.com, Simon Fairlie <chapter7 at ...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Pity they didn't come to Heathrow, it would have made more publicity
>>
>> > for both causes.
>> >
>> > Simon
>> >
>> >
>> > On 18 Aug 2007, at 22:04, Tony Gosling wrote:
>> >
>> > > Thousands take part in Tewkesbury flood plain protest
>> > >
>> > > INCLUDING Intl. Economic meltdown briefings
>> > > http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a.TCzAjLnkKY
>> > > http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_2304.shtml
>> > >
>> > > March against flood-plain housing
>> > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/gloucestershire/6952502.stm
>> > >
>> > > Residents of one of the worst-hit towns during last month's
>> flooding
>> > > crisis have staged a march against any plans to build on flood
>> plains.
>> > >
>> > > Thousands of people walked through Tewkesbury in the rain on
>> > > Saturday to
>> > > urge the government to review its policy on such development.
>> > >
>> > > Organisers wanted to highlight the devastation caused by flooding.
>> > >
>> > > The government has not ruled out using flood plains under plans to
>>
>> > > build
>> > > three million new homes by 2020.
>> > >
>> > > The march began at 1400 BST and a moment's silence was held for
>> > > those who
>> > > lost their lives in the floods.
>> > >
>> > > It does need the government to look at the issue again
>> > > Philip Workman Tewkesbury town councillor
>> > >
>> > > Tewkesbury resident Mary Daff, 59, told BBC News that her house
>> had
>> > > flooded and she was not expecting to be back in until December.
>> > >
>> > > "There has been a good turnout for the march and the mood is
>> > > cheerful,"
>> > > she added.
>> > >
>> > > Hundreds of homes and businesses were damaged in Tewkesbury after
>> the
>> > > Rivers Severn and Avon burst their banks in July.
>> > >
>> > > Chuck Pavey, who sits on the town council, said: "Any change has
>> > > got to
>> > > come from the top down.
>> > >
>> > > "Ministers who say we shouldn't rule out building on the flood
>> plain
>> > > should come and live here.
>> > >
>> > > "There were over a thousand homes flooded here - many of them
>> brand
>> > > new -
>> > > and some of the businesses will never reopen."
>> > >
>> > > 'Better alternatives'
>> > >
>> > > Town councillor Philip Workman added: "We have been through an
>> > > absolutely
>> > > awful time in Tewkesbury.
>> > >
>> > > "Many, many hundreds of people have been flooded out and it is a
>> > > case of
>> > > highlighting the fact that this is a very real problem for us."
>> > >
>> > > The government should think "out of the box" when considering
>> > > building on
>> > > flood plains, he said.
>> > >
>> > > "It is a difficult problem, but it does need the government to
>> look
>> > > at the
>> > > issue again to review its policy on building on flood plains
>> > > because it
>> > > just seems to the average person a nonsensical thing to do," he
>> added.
>> > >
>> > > In July, Housing Minister Yvette Cooper told MPs no new building
>> > > should
>> > > take place in areas with severe flood risks, although the
>> government's
>> > > Housing Green Paper is less definitive.
>> > >
>> > > It says it should be avoided "if better alternatives can be found
>> > > in the
>> > > same area".
>> > >
>> > > Ms Cooper had earlier said some new homes would be built on flood
>> > > plains,
>> > > subject to appropriate flood defences.
>> > >
>> > > A spokesman from the Communities and Local Government department
>> > > added:
>> > > "It is councils who decide whether to give planning permissions
>> for
>> > > new
>> > > housing developments, but we have introduced the strongest
>> planning
>> > > rules
>> > > ever to ensure they properly manage the risk of flooding.
>> > >
>> > > "The new planning rules require councils to consult with the
>> > > Environment
>> > > Agency before allowing new building in flood risk areas."
>> > >
>> > > Story from BBC NEWS:
>> > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/england/gloucestershire/
>> > > 6952502.stm
>> > > Published: 2007/08/18 14:52:05 GMT
>> > >
>> > > 5.27PM - THOUSANDS TAKE PART IN FLOODS PROTEST MARCH
>> > > http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?
>> > >
>> nodeId=231771&command=displayContent&sourceNode=231754&home=yes&more_n
>> > > odeId1=231776&contentPK=18140197
>> > > Thousands of people have taken part in a march in Tewkesbury to
>> > > protest
>> > > against any plans to build on flood plains.
>> > > Residents and politicians braved the rain in the hope of
>> persuading
>> > > the
>> > > Government to review its policy on such developments.
>> > > Current policy has not ruled out using flood plains in plans for
>> three
>> > > million new homes to be built in the next 13 years.
>> > > The march began at 2pm with a minute's silence for the victims of
>> > > the July
>> > > floods.
>> > > For the full story, please see Monday's editions of the
>> > > Gloucestershire
>> > > Echo and the Citizen.
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > www.public-interest.co.uk
>> > > www.new-byzantium.org
>> > > www.radiodialect.net
>> > > www.cultureshop.org
>> > > www.evnuk.org.uk
>> > > www.tlio.org.uk
>> > >
>> > > BRISTOL
>> > > +44 117 944 6219
>> > >
>> > > 
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>


-- 
www.public-interest.co.uk
www.new-byzantium.org
www.radiodialect.net
www.cultureshop.org
www.evnuk.org.uk
www.tlio.org.uk

BRISTOL
+44 117 944 6219

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