[diggers350] What are land rights?

Sat Dec 1 12:58:52 GMT 2007

Oh dear, sorry to lose you Peter.

If you folks in Bristol are short of dwelling space and concerned  
about global warming, why don't you occupy the dozens of empty office  
blocks that litter the centre, while dozens more are being built?

Simon

On 1 Dec 2007, at 11:11, Peter Hack wrote:

> firstly climate change is such an overarching problem
> and perspective with regard to work transport travel
> resource use that it has to be included as a vital
> perspective..as methane has started leeking from the
> siberian peat bogs we are probably already at the
> tipping point and climatic change may be rapid now.
>
> i must say i mulled over what had been said and i am
> going to resign this list as i feel that i have come
> to a philosphical point of divergence which in a way i
> find depressing
>
> as a city dweller i have a very different perspective
> from simon. i work in a working class setting and the
> anger amongst white Bristolians at the influx of
> people is as strong as i have known in my life. the
> problem is the lack and price of housing..do we want
> every urban green or brown space infilled?
>
> i do not want wimpey homes i hate them i want carbon
> neutral dwellings and have reluctantly, as has
> monbiot, come to the conclusion that house building is
> the only way to relieve the appalling waiting lists
> that people currently can spend a lifetime on.
>
> the green belt is a 1950's straitjacket for a smaller
> poplulation that more densely lived. it has to be
> realigned...there is simply no alternative in my view
> , single people are not going to budge up, by all
> means take on the issue of second homes but there are
> only half a million of them and will not cope with a
> rising population or the 1 and a half million on
> waiting lists. that in my view is less politically
> achieveble than building houses for those in housing
> need.
>
> i have moved twenty times in twenty five years,  i
> need some control....tenancy rights for working people
> and adequate housing.
>
> i no longer see this grouping as realistically
> addressing the problem and to be positioning itself
> along with many other green groups in a fashion that
> does not address the urgent need to address housing
> working people in Britain.
>
> i resign, all the best
>                 Peter Hack
>
>
>
> --- Simon Fairlie <chapter7 at tlio.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Here is a transcript of a discussion between Tony
>> Gosling, who
>> moderates Diggers 350 and myself about what should
>> and shouldn't go
>> up on the Diggers list.  Tony has a more narrow view
>> of what
>> constitutes land rights than I. It would be good to
>> hear what other
>> people think.
>>
>> The Land Is Ours mission statement is to "campaign
>> peacefully for
>> access to the land, its resources, and the
>> decision-making processes
>> affecting them, for everyone, irrespective of race,
>> gender or age."
>>
>>   In my view access to land obviously includes
>> access to roads — and
>> access to its resources includes the world's
>> atmosphere to which
>> everybody should have broadly equal access, whereas
>> at present
>> citizens of the UK use about 10 times as much as
>> citizens of India.
>>
>> I suggest that material relating to roads, climate
>> etc should be
>> allowed on the site when it explicitly addresses
>> issues of access and
>> equity, but not when it doesn't . So, for example a
>> posting  on
>> carbon offsetting through buying up tropical forests
>> would  be
>> relevant, as would a posting on carbon rationing.
>> But a posting on
>> the rate at which glaciers are melting, or police
>> behaviour at the
>> climate camp, for example would probably not be.
>>
>> Any comments?
>>
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: Simon Fairlie <chapter7 at tlio.org.uk>
>>> Date: 30 November 2007 19:20:25 GMT
>>> To: Tony Gosling <tony at tlio.org.uk>
>>> Subject: Re: [diggers350] Sustrans? No Thanks.
>>>
>>> I can see your point. I have the same issue with
>> The Land. But I
>>> think the net should  include all physical
>> commons, which includes
>>> roads and climate, all part of our common
>> treasury.
>>> Simon
>>> On 30 Nov 2007, at 17:57, Tony Gosling wrote:
>>>
>>>> 'Cos it's not about land rights - you can twist
>> all sorts of
>>>> environmental
>>>> issues to become land rights - such as the
>> climate change stuff -
>>>> if you're
>>>> prepared to stretch a point til it nearly breaks
>> ... but I try by
>>>> damnedest
>>>> to keep this list focussed on the social justice
>> side - access to
>>>> land for
>>>> homes and livelihoods
>>>>
>>>> T
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At 17:30 30/11/07 +0000, you wrote:
>>>>> Why? Although I don't agree with him, I've no
>> objection to him
>>>>> posting it, and it is relevant to who owns the
>> road.
>>>>>
>>>>> Simon
>>>>> On 30 Nov 2007, at 17:13, Tony Gosling wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Simon,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I sent a similar message to Larch asking him
>> not to post this
>>>>>> stuff in
>>>>>> future an hour ago
>>>>>>
>>>>>> great minds and all that!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 16:33 30/11/07 +0000, you wrote:
>>>>>>>                                  I'm rather
>> suspicious of
>>>>>>> Sustrans. They
>>>>>>> seem to be perpetuating Buchanan's theories
>> about separating
>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>> modes of traffic which were responsible for
>> all those ring roads,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> pedestrian tunnels and circuitous
>> footbridges.I would prefer to
>>>>>>> see cars
>>>>>>> disadvantaged by making them more expensive,
>> governing their
>>>>>>> speed  and
>>>>>>> giving pedestrians full priority in towns. If
>> you reduce and slow
>>>>>>> down car
>>>>>>> use then the pedestrians and cyclists can look
>> after themselves
>>>>>>> and don't
>>>>>>> need millions of quids worth of
>> funding.SimonOn 30 Nov 2007, at
>>>>>>> 12:49,
>>>>>>> Maxey L. wrote:To my mind this is the most
>> sustainable option
>>>>>>> reducing
>>>>>>> carbon emissions, creating community benefits,
>> etc., what do you
>>>>>>> think? Dr.
>>>>>>> Larch MaxeySwansea University/Prifysgol
>>>>>>> AbertaweL.Maxey at swansea.ac.uk
>> www.lammas.org.uk  From:
>>>>>>> localsustuk at yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:localsustuk at yahoogroups.com]
>>>>>>> On Behalf
>>>>>>> Of divingnick1Sent: 28 November 2007 11:08To:
>>>>>>> localsustuk at yahoogroups.comSubject:
>> [localsustuk] Vote Sustrans
>>>>>>> Connect2! I'm posting this to ask you to help
>> sustainable
>>>>>>> transport charity
>>>>>>> Sustrans win £50 million from the Big Lottery
>> Fund to invest in 79
>>>>>>> communities UK-wide. In this winner-takes-all
>> contest Sustrans'
>>>>>>> Connect2
>>>>>>> project is up against 3 other organisations -
>> the Eden Project:
>>>>>>> The Edge,
>>>>>>> Black Country Urban Park, and Sherwood: The
>> Living Legend, with
>>>>>>> the winner
>>>>>>> to be decided by public vote over the coming
>> weeks.I'm supporting
>>>>>>> Sustrans'
>>>>>>> Connect2 because it will transform local
>> travel in towns,
>>>>>>> cities and
>>>>>>> villages throughout the UK. By building new
>> bridges and crossings
>>>>>>> over busy
>>>>>>> roads, railways and rivers, and linking these
>> into networks of
>>>>>>> paths,
>>>>>>> Connect2 will make it much easier for people
>> to get where they
>>>>>>> want to go
>>>>>>> under their own steam. So whether children are
>> going to school,
>>>>>>> people to
>>>>>>> work and the shops, or friends and family to
>> visit each other,
>>>>>>> they'll be
>>>>>>> able to walk or cycle for many more
>> journeys.As many as 6 million
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> live within a mile of a proposed Connect2
>> scheme, and 1 million
>>>>>>> children go
>>>>>>> to school within a mile of a scheme. It is
>> calculated that over 60
>>>>>>> million
>>>>>>> active, low carbon journeys will be made each
>> year on the Connect2
>>>>>>> routes,
>>>>>>> potentially saving 79,000 tonnes of carbon -
>> the equivalent of
>>>>>>> emissions
>>>>>>> from 79,000 people's annual car use.If you'd
>> like to know more
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> Connect2 before making up your mind take a
>> look at
>>>>>>> www.sustransconnect2.org.ukTo make Connect2
>> happen we now really
>>>>>>> need your
>>
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
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