Land/Faith Fwd: Largest landholders in the UK
marknbarrett at googlemail.com
marknbarrett at googlemail.com
Thu Jun 7 19:55:07 BST 2012
Hello Dan
I'm copying your message into Mark Brown of TLIO (and also the TLIO Diggers list) as he forwarded me the Cahill text in the first instance.
Thanks for the reply and putting the issue in land value context
Best wishes
Mark
Sent from phone
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Syddall <danielsyddall at gmail.com>
Sender: lsxcampeconomics at googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 18:26:46
To: <lsxcampeconomics at googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: lsxcampeconomics at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Land/Faith Fwd: Largest landholders in the UK
Mark,
The National Trust (the largest private landowner, according to that list)
might own more than the Church of England *by area*. But National Trust
land is mainly in the countryside, while a large proportion of Church of
England land is in towns and cities, which is orders of magnitude more
valuable. Looking *by value* you see a different picture:
Value of National Trust assets of all types (2011): £1.04bn
(source<http://92.52.118.192/annualreport2011.pdf>,
p. 52)
Value of Church of England assets of all types (2011): £5.2bn
(source<http://www.churchofengland.org/media/1244828/final%20annual%20report%20at%2019%20april%202011.pdf>,
p. 31)
Now, this includes buildings as well as land, but clearly suggests that
when you take into account the value of land rather than just the acreage,
the scale of CofE property investments is larger than National Trust's.
Dan
On 7 June 2012 17:43, <marknbarrett at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Fyi
> Sent from phone
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <mark at tlio.org.uk>
> Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2012 13:22:52
> To: <TheLandIsOurs at yahoogroups.com>; <diggers350 at yahoogroups.com>; <
> marknbarrett at googlemail.com>
> Subject: Largest landholders in the UK
>
> email from Kevin Cahill, correcting information supplied by someone in
> an email thread (entitled 'Occupy Faith UK - Pilgrimage for Justice'),
> which suggested that the Church were the largest landowners in the UK:
>
> From: "kjcahill" (email address hidden)
> Subject: RE: [Diggers350] Occupy Faith UK - Pilgrimage for Justice
> Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 08:29:04 +0100
> To: <mark at tlio.org.uk>
>
>
> Mark, the Church Commissioners are not the single largest landowner in
> the UK. For starters, the Crown owns all land. All other have one of
> two forms of leasehold; freehold for an indefinite period, or
> leasehold for a fixed period of time. And neither lease gives
> possession of land, merely 'an interest in an estate in land in fee
> simple'.
>
> After that the largest landholders are as follows (un amended from Who
> Owns Britain 2001, but being up dated currently)
>
>
> 1. Forestry Commission. (The state) 2,400,000 acres
>
> 2.Ministry of Defence (The state) 750,000 acres
>
> 3. Nat Trust
> 550,000 acres
>
> 4. Pension funds 500,000
> acres
>
> 5. Utilities water, coal etc 500,000 acres
>
> 6. The Crown Estate 384,000
> acres approx (The Queen personally)
>
> 7. The RSPB
> 283,000 but
> added several estates between 2001 and 2012
>
> 8. Duke of Buccleuch 277,000
> acres
>
> 9.Nat Trust for Scotland 176,000 acres
>
> 10. Duke of Atholls Trusts 147,000 acres
>
>
>
> The Church Commissioners have about 120,000 acres and are number 14.
>
>
>
> The dioceses of the Church of England have 103,000 acres, separately
> from the CC, and are no. 16
>
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
>
> Kevin (Cahill)
>
>
>
> From: Diggers350 at yahoogroups.com [mailto:Diggers350 at yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of mark at tlio.org.uk
> Sent: 24 May 2012 10:13 AM
> To: diggers350 at yahoogroups.com
> Cc: Mark Barrett
> Subject: [Diggers350] Re: [DiggersRe: Occupy Faith UK - Pilgrimage for
> Justice
>
>
>
>
>
> In response to message about Occupy Faith UK - Pilgrimage for Justice,
> please read the following:
>
> From: "bewcastleminster" <reedmace at ymail.com>
> Sender: TheLandIsOurs at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [TheLandIsOurs] Re: Religion believes and encourages
> systemic theft
> Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 17:44:57 -0000
> To: TheLandIsOurs at yahoogroups.com
>
>
> There is an issue here in that the Church Commissioners are the single
> largest landowner in the UK. Most of this land is agricultural in the
> form of tenant farms. The income from these farms, along with that
> from stock-market investments, is what goes to sustain the vast
> majority of paid ministry of the Church of England, without which such
> ministry just could not happen. (Contrary to much popular opinion most
> dioceses in the CoE are broke, and collapsing. In my diocese in rural
> areas, most vicars have to look after 7-8 parishes just because there
> is no money for each to have their own, as in Victorian times to
> 1950s.)
>
> However, there is no moral interest either in the land they 'own' or
> how it is cared for or used. This is a problem.
>
> I have written to the Archbishop of Canterbury about this and, while
> he is deeply sympathetic, has no power to change the situation. It
> remains an issue, but like much in the CoE, will take time and much
> persistence to overcome.
>
> However, it is not quite fair to say religion encourages systematic
> theft. One of the priorities here in Cumbria (Diocese of Carlisle) is
> to find a way of returning to the land as part of our understanding of
> how to be human. We are presently looking at purchasing a farm on
> which to base a small community as a replacement for the existing
> system of vicar in a vicarage in a parish. This is actually about
> returning to the land, not as a possession, but seeing ourselves as
> spirit-enlivened soil, for which we are to care and share, and through
> which we are to live and receive healing.
>
> In earlier times it was actually the Church that taught people how to
> look after the land, animal husbandry, provided hospitality and
> hospitals, places of learning and safety from much of the violence
> around. And this was all land-based.
>
> There is much more that could (and should) be said on this, and while
> it is true that the present institutional structures are an obstacle,
> they have not always been so, and need not always be. As I hope we are
> trying to demonstrate.
>
> See www.bewcastleminster.org.uk
>
> Rob
>
> On Tue, 22 May 2012 07:29:39 +0100
> Mark Barrett <marknbarrett at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > This starts on June 7 fyi / in case you missed this from Tanya <
> > jimimyhero at hotmail.co.uk>
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > Dear Fellow Occupiers
> >
> > Just wanted to invite you to see if any Occupiers wish to join us
> >walking
> > a Pilgrimage for Justice to Canterbury from London. The intention is
> >to
> > stay in urban areas to engage in conversations with the local
> >communities
> > about Occupy, as well as listen to their concerns about the economic
> > crisis. This is an outreach that we are attempting, although is is
> >being
> > done through the Occupy Faith working group, which is also
> >autonomous, but
> > affiliated and supported be Occupy Faith in the USA, as OWS put us
> >into
> > contact with them. In addition, anyone from your Occupations is
> >welcome to
> > join us or to start their own Occupy Faith and we'd help in doing so
> >if
> > anyone is interested.
> >
> > Please forward our website to anyone who may be interested and if
> >you have
> > any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us.
> >occupyfaith.org.uk
> >
> > --
> > Apathy is Dead !
> >
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarider/5254770064/#/photos/solarider/5254770064/lightbox/
>
>
>
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